Tomasz Habdas: Everything is Easier in the Mountains

He is the author of an e-book, books and guidebooks. Thanks to his resourcefulness and courage, he makes his dreams come true and achieves his next mountain goals. Beskid guide, Tomasz Habdas, in conversation with Gabriela Koziara.

I managed to catch you literally a few hours before you left for the mountains. Tell us a bit about what the expedition is and how long it will take.

We are going to conquer Kilimanjaro. I've been to this mountain three times before, so this will be my fourth trip. We are flying in a very small, intimate group. There will be six other people besides me. We will be spending a total of two weeks in Tanzania, whereas just climbing Kilimanjaro is seven days. That's how long we will be on the mountain. The summit attack is between the fifth and sixth day.

I understand that the team is made up of rookies?

Yes, Kilimanjaro is such a mountain that you go there rather once in a lifetime. I know very few people who go there several times and if they do, like me, they do it for professional reasons, for example as group leaders.

I also ask about this expedition in the context of the criteria that need to be met to take part. I imagine it is not possible to go and climb the summit on the spot. There is an acclimatisation process in the mountains, but it probably has to be preceded by training.

That's right. Once we're there, everything we've done before will work, so when we're in Tanzania, it's my role and the role of the local guides to help us get to the top. I always say that Kilimanjaro is not an eminently difficult mountain because there are favourable conditions in terms of climate, weather, but also the approach itself and the technique. It's not a technical ascent at all, there's no climbing there, you don't use equipment like crampons, an ice-check or ropes. There is no glacier walking. It's just high altitude trekking, so really the biggest obstacles are altitude sickness and our psyche. It is often said that Kilimanjaro is conquered with the head and not necessarily with the muscles.

How do you help yourself before an expedition?

If you are an active person, meaning, for example, that you often go to the mountains or regularly go to the gym, cycle or train for running, then I think this is perfectly sufficient. The daily distances on an expedition are not long. They are approx. 10-12 km a day, and the altitudes are 800-900 m. So it is not a murderous trek, so any person who is reasonably active can go on such a trip with confidence. When it comes to mountain experience, I can honestly say that 80-90% of the people who go with me to Kilimanjaro are those who have so far been to Rysy at the highest. Occasionally it will happen that someone has only been to Babia Góra, so Kilimanjaro is their first major mountain and their first encounter with altitude sickness. Insofar as it is an enjoyable mountain, you don't need an extensive mountain CV or experience to take on it. With a head, it can be conquered without too much trouble.

That being said, if anyone has only been exposed to the Tatras so far and would like to start an adventure with higher mountains, are there any other peaks besides Kilimanjaro that would be worth starting with?

I think it's worth starting somewhere lower, because Kilimanjaro is almost 6,000 metres. It is quite a high mountain and altitude sickness can be felt quite strongly there, and if you don't know your body and don't know how it will behave at altitude, it might be better to go somewhere lower, but it is not so zero-one. You can go to Kilimanjaro, but if you have the time and ability, it's better to climb a four-thousander beforehand. A super peak that I highly recommend is Jabal Tubkal in the Atlas Mountains, Morocco. Morocco is very well connected, there are planes flying there. Now, unfortunately, with a connecting flight, but it is easy to get there. Locally, it is not expensive, tourism is very well organised, for example to climb the mountain with a local guide. Tubkal is a very pleasant mountain, which can be climbed in 2-3 days with an overnight stay in a hostel at 3,200m. In terms of weather and climate, it is very friendly, especially if you go there in summer. There is no glacier there, so there is no option to climb with an ice-checker. If you go in winter, you need to bring crampons because it snows there though, but in summer it's very common to walk on rocks, loose gravel, so it's a great option to train yourself at a particular altitude.

"The mountains bring me closest to the kind of person I would like to be in my everyday life" - this sentence comes from the ABOUT ME section of your blog. In view of this, I would like to ask you what this statement implies and what kind of man you would like to be?

I know it's not possible to be 100% of the time in the mountains, but I have noticed from myself that in the mountains I am the kind of person that suits me best: a person who is smiling almost all the time, with no worries, no problems. Fortunately, I have arranged my professional and personal life in such a way that I don't really have too many problems and worries. In the mountains, on the other hand, there is such a total detachment from what's left below, in the city. There, it's just about focusing on the here and now, that I have a particular section to go through and making sure it's enjoyable and safe.

I once said to myself that in the mountains that smile is the biggest, the most genuine. When I'm with people in the mountains, I find that I talk to them completely differently. I'm probably more open, because I still feel like I'm at home and comfortable in that environment and setting. So I suspect that in interacting and communicating with others I am the kind of person I would like to be on a daily basis. It can be different in the city, because we all put on some kind of mask and sometimes not everything is completely honest. It's not that we are fake, but sometimes we smile and we don't feel like it. In the mountains I feel that everything is just easier and those problems are completely different, or not there at all, so life is easier there and I guess I just wish it was like that every day.

I can say from my own experience that there is a lot of truth in that. The mountains can give you a springboard and that satisfaction is really quite a lot, even if it is sometimes mixed up with fatigue.

Well, that's the kind of excitement you can't find in the lowlands. I think it is also a question of having a passion and a hobby of some kind. If someone enjoys doing something different, like painting pictures or cooking, they can get the same emotions through what they do. I think it's mainly about having a passion.

Do you feel, after these few years spent in the mountains as a guide, that you have discovered your vocation?

I never called it my vocation, which is that this is what I should be doing in life and that I have found myself. I don't think I've ever looked at it that way. I always say that I've been doing mountains professionally for three years, and before that I treated it as a hobby, a passion, a fondness. Now, parallel to the passion, I do it professionally on many levels. Even in my first and so far only e-book, I described that I was going through some changes in my life. I moved from Zywiec to Warsaw to study, I worked in a corporation, then I quit the corporation and opened my own company with a partner. After seven years, I sold it and took up something completely different. So the changes in my life came in succession and I felt the need to change something radically in my life every few years. However, throughout all these stages, whether I was at university, working in a bank or having my own company, I was always accompanied by mountains.

I used to escape to them often and the older I got, the more I felt the need to go more often. I even joke that with each passing year the mountains demanded that I be there more often and that I spend more days in them, so my change was that I didn't want to do what I used to do, I wanted something different. In the back of my mind I have a feeling that it was about having more time for the mountains, so maybe it's actually the case that that was the main goal. Although I never called it out loud like that, but it was ultimately what I was leading up to. I was 32 years old when I decided that I wanted to get into the mountains so totally and get specific about it. It worked out, I've somehow been pulling this mountain wagon for over three years now and it's been very good.

You come from Zywiec, i.e. the Beskid Zywiecki, so you were familiar with the mountains from an early age. Do you think that if it wasn't for your background, you would be climbing mountains?

It's difficult for me to say. There's often a second parallel question: would I have started hiking in the mountains if it wasn't for my dad. Because with me, the mountains started with my dad, who took me out hiking when I was still in primary school. The latter question is easier for me to answer and I think I would have taken an interest sooner or later and started hiking a few years later. On the other hand, if I hadn't grown up in Zywiec, I have no idea what would have happened. Maybe Warsaw made me miss the mountains so much and want to go back to them. I don't know, I don't think about it. I'm just glad that it worked out so that I can be in my favourite environment.

I sometimes observe such a tendency among people coming from mountain areas that a large percentage do not benefit at all from being close to the mountains. I don't understand this a bit and it bothers me precisely in terms of what you mentioned, that often people from further afield and from big cities are interested in mountain subjects.

It is darkest under the lamp. I also have a lot of acquaintances, but also members of my family, who live in Zywiec and do not hike in the mountains at all, because they are not interested in it. It is the same with people who live in Podhale, with people who run guesthouses and hotels. Sometimes a tourist comes off the trail, tells you how far they have come, and these people do not understand what they are talking about, because they have probably never been there. I remember when I came to Warsaw to study, and when I said I was from Żywiec, I expected everyone to say: Ooo, Żywiec, there's a brewery there, and so on. And it was completely different, because they said they knew it and associated it from the ski slopes, from Korbielów, from Szczyrk. Everyone assumed that I certainly skied well. I had no experience of skiing at all when I was a child. But it was too expensive a sport for my parents to buy me skis, let alone passes. There are these stereotypes that if you're from the mountains, you're probably hiking. That doesn't always hold true.

Going back to my dad, he initiated and I continued this thread in middle school. We had a few school trips, the two-day kind. In high school I had a PE teacher, so he didn't make up trips to Warsaw for three days or to Krakow or the seaside, we went to the mountains. He would say to me: Tomek, you can plan some routes. It was cool that I would plan routes for the whole class, we'd make up some trails to follow and then we'd go on little private trips together with our friends. That was the first time I fulfilled my role as the person who planned, looked for trails, hostels, how to get there, etc. Solo outings happened too, but they were the most surrounding hills near home. I don't live in the city centre itself, but in a neighbourhood above Zywiec, which is out of the way and we are very close. There's a peak called Łysek (640m above sea level), so that's where I used to take walks, go for a run, and that's how I discovered this immediate area. I was always looking at those mountains around me and they must have attracted me.

Since it was so appealing, did you already have any dreams related to high-altitude activities at the time?

I don't think I had such dreams back then. Thinking about myself and how I wanted to structure this life, I remember that when I was in high school, I always dreamed of having my own company. I wanted to be my own boss and build everything from scratch. That was my biggest dream. On the other hand, when I was already at university and I would go back to Żywiec, to my parents, and go on trips, sit somewhere, look at the beautiful views, then I would think about the fact that tomorrow I have to get on a train and go back to Warsaw, to work. It was a very bad thought for me and I kept thinking that it would be nice to get to the point where I could spend as much time as I wanted in the mountains and not think about the fact that I had days off and had to go back straight away. That was the driving force that motivated me to get to that point. The cool thing is that it worked out, whereas the mountain ambitions only came later. As they say, the appetite grows as you eat. I climbed the peaks very gradually, I didn't throw myself in at the deep end, I just went through the stages, to higher and higher peaks.

We know that you tell your story very well in your e-book Skazany na szczyty (Condemned to the Peaks) published in 2020, and of course we refer you there for a handful of information and mountain inspiration, but I would like to ask you about one specific moment in your life. When and under what circumstances did you get up from your desk and decide to follow your own mountain path? 

It was not one day, it was not one moment. It took place when I had my own business with a partner. We were in the catering business and after a few years, after five or so, I noticed that I no longer liked it, it no longer gave me joy and satisfaction. Financially it was ok, but I didn't feel any fulfilment internally, in fact I had a growing disgust for what I was doing. I knew I had to go to my place and I really didn't want to go there, I didn't want to go through those reports and keep thinking about what to do to earn even more. I'm a bit of a millennial, in fact I'm on the borderline between millenials and the older generation. In fact, this sense of change is quite high in me and I need to have fun in what I do. If I'm bored at work and not happy, I think I'd rather do nothing. I felt that sooner or later the moment would come when I would have to evacuate. At the same time, bigger trips to the mountains started to appear and my passion developed. At that time, I rode the Beskids, started going to the Tatras. I also had trips abroad: I was in the Ukraine in the Gorgans on a bivouac, in Romania and I think I had also been to the Alps, to Mount Blanc. Later there was also Kazbek in Georgia and Elbrus in Russia. I knew I wanted to go in that direction, to go to high mountains, to climb higher and higher peaks, to cross more and more borders. I still liked coming back to the Polish mountains, the Beskids, the Tatras, the Sudetes. I had a lot of fun doing that.

What was the moment of transition like? I imagine it must have been difficult for many reasons, both family and economic, and involved a certain amount of risk.

This was the moment when social media took off in Poland. Not so much Facebook, but Instagram. Just out of curiosity, I set myself up an account on Instagram, with the idea that maybe I could make it into a cool platform in a few years' time, which would ultimately allow me to make money and get sponsors for high-mountain trips. From the very beginning, my goal was to go to the mountains high and far. I didn't expect this Instagram to surprise me so much. It started to grow nicely, people really liked what I was doing and it was such a driving wheel, and it gave me joy too. Naturally, I wanted to go to the mountains more often so I could create more and more of this material, and on the other hand, to also discover new places and increase my knowledge. On the one hand, it was getting busy, but the ball and chain was nevertheless work, so I suggested to my partner after six years of business that we sell the company. I could see from him that he too was struggling to run the business and wanted to get on with other things. Luke, my former partner, is a friend of mine. We still keep in touch, but business-wise our paths diverged and we wanted to develop in completely different areas. Fortunately, I was able to develop this mountainous sphere while still owning the company, so it wasn't really that big a leap. After selling the company, I didn't step into a completely different world because it already existed and was growing, which helped me a lot.

So I take it that you weren't accompanied by any fears, doubts, you weren't afraid of what people or family would say?

I think not, I've been through this before. I didn't have a problem with what my mother would say, because I've had to have these conversations with her before. The first one was when I made up my mind to go to Warsaw to study. My mother didn't like that very much. She wanted me to be in Katowice, close to home, because it would be cheaper. I had to convince her to do it.

I remember the worst conversation was when I quit my job at the bank. It seemed like a great job to my parents, safe, stable, because she was in a managerial position at the bank's head office. I said I didn't want to do that, that I wanted to open a catering business, so they were horrified by my choice. When I told my parents 7 years later that I was selling the business, again I could see the horror in my mum's eyes caused by what I was going to do now. She already loved this company of mine, so when I told her that I would now be going to the mountains, she didn't understand it at all anymore. It's hard to explain such things to parents. It's maybe a bit easier now, because I tell them that I write books, go on trips with clients and so on. But a few years ago, when there was no book yet, when I wasn't a guide, it was difficult to explain to them that now I was going to walk in the mountains, take photos and make a living somehow. My parents, on the other hand, didn't really have much to say, so they trusted that I probably knew what I was doing. I had no doubts, to be honest, because it was a comfortable time for me.

We sold the company, so we had some money and I said to myself that I would give myself a year to get things rolling and see if it worked out. For that year, in case I didn't earn anything, I had the capital to survive. It turned out to be completely different and I didn't even have to start it up. It worked out right from the start.

That's what I'm thinking, if it hadn't been for choosing that original path, it would have been difficult to choose the mountain trail right after university, without a foundation, whether financial or psychological?

It would definitely have been much more difficult. It was also at a time when, right after my studies, Facebook was already there, while Instagram was not yet, nor were there any other platforms to share your experiences or expeditions. Even if only from this aspect, it was very difficult. Recently, I was talking to a friend and he asked me this question: Tomek, no offence, but there are quite a lot of people like you now and how is it that you stand out? Why do you succeed and others don't?

I referred in the first instance to the travellers, to the big names. I'd like to point out straight away that I don't consider myself on an equal footing with these people, because for me they are much, much higher, just like Monika Witkowska or all our Himalayan climbers, but this is already a generation a little older. The travellers who started 15-20 years ago didn't live in the age of the booming internet and social media, so for them the only option was to look for big sponsors, write books and make money out of it. It was a very different model of travel in terms of money.

I was very fortunate that the internet boomed strongly. You could build on that and earn money for all the trips, which was a huge plus. It would have been very difficult for me after university if I had chosen that direction and decided to go into guiding. I think it could have turned out very differently then. Those few years later, the world had already allowed me to rock that kind of business.

To act as a guide, you need to have charisma and spread an aura around you that makes the participants of an expedition feel safe. To what extent were these qualities that you use in your work already present in you, and to what extent did you have to learn them?

To be honest, I don't know. I had it easier because I had already worked with people before. Before I went on the mountain guide course, I had already worked in a tourist office as a leader on trips abroad. I already had some familiarity and knowledge of what it's like on a trip with a group, how to work with people, what to expect, what they most often ask. Funnily enough, on my first training course they told me that I always had to know the answer to the questions: how much will the food be for and when can you pee. It doesn't matter where you are, people ask that most often.

When I had done a few of these expeditions and had already worked as a leader for three years, I decided to go into the mountains as a Beskydy guide. It seemed to me that I could take care of this area of taking care of people. However, the mountains are a completely different environment and it's a bit different. I was more concerned about the content and that there was a lot of knowledge to be absorbed. The course takes a very long time, almost two years, and there are a lot of things to learn. However, the truth is that the course does talk a bit about how to lead a group, how to behave, but this is not the main part of the course. It's not as if the whole module is devoted to how to work with people. The assumption is that everyone has to work it out for themselves, everyone is different. On the other hand, I think these are also innate skills. I'm sure they can be acquired to some extent, but a lot depends on who has what character.

I've managed to get to know myself before, on trips with people, and that's certainly helped me a lot, but since becoming a guide, every trip to the mountains teaches me something new, the people are different too. Fortunately, so far I've been 99% very lucky with the people I've met on the trips and they're really very cool people. That's always the plus point of these trips, that they get to know each other either at the airport or somewhere at the start of the trail, and after two days they act like they're a best friend pack, they can't part, they say it's too short. This collaboration is amazing and I love it.

Taking responsibility for another person in the mountains is quite a challenge. Do you feel pressure as a leader?

It's definitely a responsibility and somewhat of a professional risk. You have to learn to deal with it, but it varies depending on the situation. A Tatra Mountains guide, for instance, takes a different risk when leading two people on a high ridge with ropes, compared to a Beskidy Mountains guide leading a whole group on a three-day trek. There's a certain risk involved when someone sets out on a trail alone. You have to mentally prepare for the possibility of various situations. Fortunately, I haven't encountered any where someone was seriously injured, but I know it could happen. The procedures are familiar to me.

I won't deny that having everyone insured provides a significant psychological comfort. I know that if something happens abroad, it's just a matter of a few phone calls, a local hospital, etc. All expenses are reimbursed, everything is covered financially, which allows me to work comfortably. Even on foreign expeditions, I'm never alone because our agency uses local guides who can assist and organize transportation in case of emergency.

Do you remember any particularly dangerous moments in your mountain activities?

Personally, I haven't experienced any major injuries, but there have been situations where I was very concerned. I remember climbing Rysy in winter with a friend. The conditions were extremely harsh with heavy snowfall. Freshly fallen snow doesn't hold crampons well. We descended into a fairly steep area. Going up is relatively easy as you can just dig your legs into the snow and rocks. The problem arises during descent. Suddenly, we reached a point where we knew we couldn't continue. We had chosen the wrong route for that snow condition. Turning around and looking back, we knew the descent would be very difficult because it was steep and we had already disturbed the snow, so the grip wouldn't be good. It was a difficult moment for me because for five minutes we sat in silence, in the winter, not knowing what to do – turn back, wait for help, maybe call the mountain rescue team. But we decided to slowly try to descend, step by step, maintaining proper spacing. We were at an altitude of 2100 meters, far from the summit of Rysy, so going to the top was out of the question. At that moment, I just wished to be in the warmth of the shelter above Morskie Oko, drinking mulled beer, instead of being under the summit in this stupid situation we found ourselves in. Fortunately, we managed to descend safely without any slips or falls.

I've also encountered situations where someone else was in need, not necessarily someone I knew or someone in my group, but strangers who required help, and we provided it. Once on Rysy in winter, we met a girl whose feet were frostbitten. She had minor frostbite and lost feeling in her feet, unable to walk at all. When someone's feet freeze, which can even happen in a city, it feels like you're walking on concrete blocks and you feel nothing. I remember my friend and I took off her shoes and warmed her feet with our hands. After 10 minutes, we managed to warm them up, and the girl even continued with us to the summit.

The second situation occurred on Toubkal in Morocco, where I helped a British woman who lost her vision because of snow blindness. This happens when there's intense sunlight reflecting off the snow. The woman didn't have sunglasses, so the sun and snow constantly irritated her eyes, causing temporary blindness. My friend and I helped her descend to the shelter, guiding her hand in hand. Fortunately, she regained her sight near the shelter.

I haven't experienced such situations myself, and I hope it stays that way.

You mentioned the Tatra Mountains. Your qualifications cover the Beskids, could you indicate what a Tatra mountain guide course entails and how it differs? Would you ever consider pursuing it?

It differs in terms of area and scope of qualifications. The Beskids guide course covers knowledge about all Beskid ranges in Poland and also includes the Pieniny Mountains. On the other hand, the Tatra mountain guide course, one might say, focuses solely on the Tatra National Park, but in reality, it's a very challenging course, lasting about two years, similar to the Beskids course. There's a lot of knowledge involved, even though it pertains only to the Tatra National Park, the scope of knowledge is not limited. It includes history, culture of the Podhale highlanders, Podhale, Spisz, but above all, a whole lot of topography. You need to know every peak, gully, pass, every rock, so there's a lot to it. Additionally, there are aspects related to climbing: you have to undergo a climbing course, know basic knots, and rope tying techniques. After completing the basic level Tatra mountain guide course, you're not allowed to lead tourists off-trail because these qualifications only permit guided hikes on marked trails. However, this knowledge is essential in case of emergency situations. During the exam, candidates are questioned on climbing topics, given a rope, and must tie knots or colloquially speaking, "attach people in the valley".

Have I thought about this course? Of course, I have. I think if I decide to pursue another guide course, it would be the Tatra mountain guide course. However, I've heard many urban legends about how difficult the course is and how it filters out candidates from outside the Podhale region. There are such myths, although recently, a friend who is a Tatra mountain guide and TOPR rescuer said that there's no such thing anymore; maybe ten years ago, but now they accept everyone. Even candidates from the seaside, so maybe there wouldn't be a problem if I, as a highlander from the Beskids, attended it, and maybe they would accept me.

What does your ordinary, though extraordinary for many, day look like?

For me, those days vary because it's either a day in the mountains or a day in Warsaw. When I'm in the city, there's always something to do. Usually, it's either writing texts or I'm in the process of writing a book and sitting in front of my laptop. I create industry articles because I collaborate with magazines or blogs in the tourism sector. But let's also say that I've somewhat remained in the gastronomy industry, as texts authored by me also appear in that field. It's really computer work, replying to emails, planning upcoming trips, and related logistics (budget, offers for the website, etc.). I usually interrupt this work with a workout around noon. Sometimes, there's a meeting in the city with friends or someone who would like to go on a joint expedition. We meet and talk. Nothing out of the ordinary :)

You have a very interesting profile on Instagram, filled with positive, valuable content and lots of beautiful photos from stunning locations. Just that alone has gathered around 36 thousand followers around you. How long did it take you to build this community, and what actions did you take to reach such a level?

It takes some time. I think it used to be more spontaneous; I'd go to the mountains, upload photos, publish some video materials from the trip. Wanting to have more of these materials, I had to go to the mountains more often. Fortunately, I liked and still like doing it, so it wasn't much of a problem. Now Instagram has changed a bit, and so have the algorithms. Instagram is focusing on entirely different content now, not necessarily photos but more on video. You also need to adjust to that. When going to the mountains now, I have to think about what I want to do there, what video shots I want to record, what topic to cover, what to focus on, whether to talk more about the mountains, show what to pack in a backpack, or maybe just capture the landscape.

How long did it take me? I've been running my Instagram profile for 6 years. In the beginning, there were very few people like me. There were many travelers showing photos from all over the world, but I never considered myself a traveler because I just went to the mountains. Whenever I chose the next destination, it was always a mountain. A perfect example of this is when earlier this year, I was in Argentina. It was my first time in South America, and we spent three weeks there, two of which were on Aconcagua: just one mountain. I didn't see anything else because I only saw Buenos Aires on arrival and departure. That's how it is with me.

When I started on Instagram, there were very few people who walked in the mountains, made video reports, and talked about what they were doing and where they were going; you could count them on one hand. However, with each passing year, their number increased. I don't know if they modeled themselves after my account... Maybe to some extent, and it's actually quite nice. My friend always tells me, "Dude, you're an influencer, as the name suggests. You influence people, and they want to imitate you." So I'm glad it's going in that direction.

Do you also use Instagram as a tool for collaboration and making money?

Absolutely. Collaborations and advertising campaigns appear from time to time. If it's a product or service that suits me, fits the content, or I know I'll use it myself, I usually agree to such collaborations. It's also a nice financial boost because it helps with planning further trips.

On the other hand, I have the opportunity to show something interesting to someone because other people also benefit from it. I don't hide the fact that Instagram simply helps in reaching people who want to go on expeditions with me. So in my work, there are: writing books, foreign trips, motivational travel lectures for businesses. These are three big categories, but in between them, as a kind of ether, are Instagram, Facebook, and the website, which help drive this movement and reach people. That's why I use these tools.

I recently talked to friends who complained about how Instagram has changed, how it now forces video creation, reels, and how they don't feel like doing it. I, on the other hand, say that if someone treats Instagram professionally, it's like new software. There's just been an update, and you have to adjust to it if you still want to derive financial benefits from this platform.

How do sponsorships work for you? Do you select them based on the specific nature of the expedition, or are they consistent?

I've changed my approach to this topic a bit because in the beginning, when I was developing and organizing everything in my head, I thought it would look like this - meaning there would be sponsors, sponsored trips. That's how it looked in the previous generation. Our great travelers operated this way, but I remember the first expedition in 2018 when I tried to find a sponsor for Kilimanjaro, and I kept hitting closed doors all the time, sending hundreds of emails, but no one wanted to tackle this topic. I was almost invisible on Instagram at that time, so it was hard for anyone to get excited about it. I then concluded that this was not the way to go; things needed to change.

I changed the operating model - I started working as a leader on foreign trips, and in my first office job, I managed to go to Kilimanjaro twice. Currently, I work for a travel agency with which I participated in an expedition to Aconcagua as an assistant leader because I had never been on that mountain before. However, thanks to this, I was able to get to know this destination and summit the peak I always dreamed of. I think that's the approach I prefer to use now. There are some smaller or larger collaborations on foreign trips, but it's not like I could call these companies the main sponsors of the expedition, but rather treat it as support. I sponsor my own expeditions, and incidentally, I do tests for someone, such as boots or jackets.

What do your workouts look like? I suspect you don't limit yourself to just hiking in the mountains.

I'm very fortunate to be in the mountains very often, so that's probably the best training when I can be on the trail with a backpack and poles and just walk. This allows me to maintain my fitness, and when I'm in Warsaw, I support this activity with gym training. It's strength training, but largely endurance-based. I do more repetitions, at high intensity, to pump up all the muscles and ensure that the heart gets a bit more effort. In the high mountains, the heart has a lot of work to do and it needs to be strong. I don't lift heavy weights in a smaller number of repetitions. That's really it for now. I used to run and swim, but I honestly admit that I don't have time for that now. I have quite a few trips. When I'm in Poland, I often go to the Beskids, Sudetes, or the Tatras. So I drop by Warsaw for a week or 10 days, and then my training is limited to the gym and preparing for the next expeditions and trying to write a few chapters of the book.

In recent years, ski touring has become popular. What is your approach to this form of tourism?

I've been trying to get into ski touring for three years now. I always promise myself in the fall that this winter I will definitely try it, and then winter passes, and I still don't have those skis on my feet. I've been skiing downhill a few times on a classic slope, but I can't call myself a big fan of this sport, and it's not like when it snows, I immediately think about where to go skiing. Indeed, there are more and more people in the mountains who go uphill with skis and then ski down. I joke that tourists with crampons and an ice axe or with poles and snowshoes will probably be fewer with each passing year and more ski tourers.

And running? The number of skyrunning enthusiasts is still growing.

I tried running, I was into it a few years ago, and then I gave it up. I prefer speed hiking, which means walking very lightly, with a small backpack, a bit faster. A fast pace uphill, and downhill running in light trail running shoes. I really like that, but I stopped running in the mountains. I'm not a born runner, and I always explain to myself that I'm too heavy for it. Although I know that many running coaches would laugh at me right now, but I guess it's not my sport.

I'm curious about the aspect of acclimatization and staying at high altitudes. Not every organism can tolerate such large temperature fluctuations or drops in pressure. Do you need to have specific predispositions for this, or can it be trained?

The problem with high mountains is that you can't train for it. It's an individual matter for the organism. Everyone has either better or worse predispositions. I always put Andrzej Bargiel in the forefront, who is currently attempting to summit Everest, as someone with incredible predispositions. Similarly, Adam Bielecki. Although I recently read an interesting book: they had different experiences, and it's not that they were all born exceptional climbers specializing in high-altitude mountaineering. However, there are people who acclimatize a little worse, but it's not that high-altitude mountaineering is completely ruled out for these people. They just need more time to acclimatize. However, they should spend a little more time in the mountains before going to the summit. This can be a bit of a challenge because when we go in a group and it's a commercial expedition, we know that we have a limited number of days for the ascent and we have to stick to it. If someone doesn't make it in time, we're very sorry, but that person won't go to the summit. Although as a rule, when I look at our expeditions, we do have longer ascent options. On Kilimanjaro, we have a total of seven days, which is longer than the average time because the average is usually six days. This one extra day makes a big difference. On Aconcagua, we had two weeks.

Our predispositions are one thing. The other thing is that we can help ourselves a lot during the trek. This is work from the first day of climbing the mountain. The basic rules are to drink a very large amount of water, about 4-5 liters a day. Water with isotonic drinks, minerals, vitamins, or sweetened tea. You also need to eat a lot. Sometimes there's a problem with this: when we're high up, we don't feel like eating because sometimes we feel nauseous due to the altitude. In addition, getting enough sleep. From the very beginning of the expedition, I try to instill this in people's heads, and in the evening, I check who drank how much today and how much they ate. In addition, we measure our oxygen saturation level in the blood to ensure safety and based on that, we check how we're acclimatizing.

In your book "Where to Go for a Mountain Weekend: Mountain Trails for Everyone," we find plenty of practical tips and trail descriptions, even for beginners. How would you encourage people who have not yet had any experience with mountain hiking to give it a try? Where should they start?

I always say that if we want to take someone to the mountains for the first time, we definitely need to carefully consider the length of the trail. It shouldn't be immediately 20 or 30 km, as we might discourage someone. We need to remember that 10 km in the mountains is not the same as on flat terrain, somewhere in the forest or in the park, because there's elevation gain.

It's also important to choose the trail and the day wisely. If you're going to the mountains for the first time, go on a beautiful day when the sun is shining and there are great views, so that this trip leaves nice memories in your mind, not that someone walked for eight hours in the rain because then they probably won't want to go to the mountains a second or third time.

The attractiveness of the trail is also important, with many viewpoints, a mountain hut on site or along the way for a rest, a coffee break, or a meal. I would confidently choose the most popular and attractive trails in each mountain range, such as Rysianka in the Żywiec Beskids, Pilsko, Babia Góra in beautiful weather, Dolina Pięciu Stawów or Hala Gąsienicowa in the Tatra Mountains, or an easy peak, and in the Bieszczady Mountains, Połonina or Tarnica. There are quite a few such places to create nice memories and remember the beautiful views and great atmosphere in the mountain hut.

Hopefully, with these tips, more people will get off the couch :) Finally, I have to ask, what is your biggest dream related to the mountains?

Wow, I'm not sure because it has changed. Probably if you had asked me that question five years ago, I would have said it's the Crown of the Earth and completing the highest peaks, including Everest. Now my perception of all this has changed a bit, and I know that I have to listen to my body. I don't rule out Everest, but I know it would be a long and exhausting expedition. But maybe indeed the highest peak in the world is such a dream, because I'm aware that it would require an immense amount of work, preparation beforehand, but above all during, because all these previous trips have shown me that I'm not Andrzej Bargiel or Adam Bielecki, and I don't acclimatize as quickly as I would like. Therefore, it would be a very big challenge for me, but there are still a few smaller goals for the next few years. But those are more goals than dreams.

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